I don't believe it!

 

Because it not only gives insight into the human condition, it allows you to more fully explore your own ideas and beliefs. While I do enjoy someone conceding an argument, I actually feel much better off when something clicks and I concede. I know that though it doesn’t come easy, I have a new more enlightened perspective. That’s why I like to argue about most controversial subjects.

 

You are right Baller, but it is human nature it seems to want to make everybody agree with your beliefs.

 

Not really I won't have this discussion with friends or loved ones who really seem to need their faith.

 

Because some people, like those who believe that kissing in public is a stoning offense and that the earth is only 6000 years old, are just stupid and deserve to be criticized.

-S-

 

2 problems with this argument:

1) only the person performing the act can ever truly know what their intention was, if, in fact, they themselves are even aware of that.

2) it takes quite a leap to discount the "good" things that take place regardless of someone's intent. In your argument, if someone who acts out of personal convenience ends up saving lives, he is less moral than someone who is intends to act morally but ends up killing people. Pretty slippery slope it seems.

 

the path to hell is paved with good... good... good... something. Oh heck, Nm...

 

My point is that your point invalidates anything you say that begins with "This is why I have a problem with Muslims." You're making a blanket-statement about a group of people that are diverse and varied, just like Christians, just like Jews, just like any ethnic or religious group.

 

good answer and a really good explanation. I won't get involved in any of this but as long as it brings about some good, it's a good thing

 

I think this hits it right on the head, for me anyway. I don't resist my inner nature, but my inner nature turned out to be rather benign.

 

Read anything that Richard Dawkins has said.

 

In the course of the hot topic threads I've started regarding the Islamic faith, I've gone out of my way to state that "yes, I know this is not all muslims." I've said it several times.

What I said about Islam before still holds true, however. If you'd like I'll dig out my books and cite you some sources in reference to the Muslim doctrine about charity. My point was to illustrate the difference between the two religions and that, politics aside, Christians and Christianity are the most charitable force the world has ever seen.

-S-

 

They are somewhat problems but it doesn’t really change the truth for me.

1) Most people are actually quite transparent under scrutiny (I’m talking in the flesh, I really don’t care enough about celebrities to devote that much attention.) Sure there are more complex people, deceitful people, and guarded people. But it’s really not my goal to assign a moral number to everyone.

2) Not that the good things should be totally discounted, but I still hold to my previous statement. And I agree with your example as counter intuitive as some may see it. To expand on your example:

You’re fighting in a war and your platoon is about to be overrun, one of your comrades tells everyone to run away from the onslaught and he will sacrifice himself to hold the enemies as long as he can. The direction he points everyone sends them into a mine field where everyone that enters perishes. Before you get to the minefield one of your other comrades knocks you over while he is trying to run away and proceeds to climb over you. The extra time he cost you buys both of you enough time to see the others in your group die, which causes you to go another way and ultimately saves your life. If all three of you survive, who had the greater character, and who would you trust to still be part of your group?

 

Ha Ha this is a good quote and pretty appropriate right now. But being a non-subscriber, I normally just use this quote interchangeably with the “of mice and men” one.

 

Atheists are moral because they want to help build a world worth living in.

One could also argue that since christians are always forgiven, and this world is irrelevent, that they have no reason to be moral so long as they remember to repent.

Atheists believe that this is the ONLY world and that gives it more importance.

 

While I am an Atheist and believe myself to live by good morals (some Christians would argue). I don't think your argument holds any ground as it is all based on your individual opinion. Stalin was an Atheist and thats just the first extreme counter example I could think of. There are good and bad people in every walk of life.

 

All atheists don't think this is the only world. Some of us have actually been there and come back. It is a shame that "religion" has so distorted what is true for the benefit of the religious establishment (who like to be the sheepherders of the sheep the rest of the people are in their eyes.)

 

Not to condone all of what Stalin did, but if you look at his harsh five year plan it actually (industrially)brought the Soviet Union fairly close to up-to-date, from being fifty years behind industrially(about 3 or four years behind the curve after the plan had worked itself out)

 

Yess fully charitable, i mean all of those Muslims and Jews wanted those swords in thier bodies, Gallileo wanted house arrest, and Hugo Chavez wants to be assasinated(Pat Robertson) (im going to leave all of those little boys who wanted it alone) (NOTE SARCASM)

 

What did I say? I said 'politics aside'. You want to go toe-to-toe on who's the better killer you better bring your big boy shoes and have your facts straight.

You point to the child molesters as if somehow that negates over a thousand years of achievements, charity, humanitarian work and scholarship by the Catholic Church and other Christians. You're a child mocking what it doesn't understand.

I'm not making excuses for what the Church did. The pedophiles should absolutely be brought to task for their actions. Throw the proverbial book at them. And if you want to point to Galileo as some kind of vindication for your ignorance, you're only shining a brighter light on your stupidity. You want to impose your modern thinking on a world 500 years past. Such an easy thing to do. If, you know, you ignore the truth.

And why don't you do a quick search on Salmon Rushdie and the fatwa that has been out on his life for nearly 20 years. To this day the man lives in hiding. Also run a check on Theo Van Gogh.

-S-